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Subject :Downwind problem at sea.. 2006-10-12 07:35:24

SeasidePeter

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Joined: 2006-10-04 10:14:14
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I'm having considerable trouble sailing downwind in anything of a breeze. The boat seems to get very unstable, developing a death-roll I last felt on OKs, which are famous for it. Can anybody point me at ideal mast rake settings for the Heron? I've set mine up so it gives me just a touch of weather helm (I can steer in a straight line without the rudder), but I wonder whether the power is too far forward for downwind. I'm using a cut down genoa (John Howard's old one). Nice to have a site to discuss these arcane things....

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Subject :Re: Downwind problem at sea.. 2006-10-12 21:31:43

admin

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Joined: 2006-02-21 22:09:04
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Have you actually flipped it or does it just feel like you are going to flip it? If I recall correctly - OK has a single sail so puts all the power on the mast with no countering power -plus its mast is very near the bow - with a two sailed boat you should get better balance? And using a genoa over a jib should presumably make that better Are you able to goosewing? My heron (small jib, rubbish main) will goosewing about 15degrees eihter side, with no pole, and although it sometimes feels in a sea like it could flip any second it never has. Mine's gaff rigged so rake is hard to say - the gaff band touches the mast. Are you racing or cruising? If crusining where is your gear stored? Could it be weight distribution? How much is a breeze? Is this in tidal waters? Is it tide with or tide against wind or something else. Have you tried putting a reef in - not for racing

but for cruising - if there is just too much power that'll be the easiest way to know. And finally (sorry!) what does a 'death-roll' really mean? Is it wobbbling, capsizing, flipping bow first, jibing without warning? etc... That'll do for now ... not that I have answers if/when you reply! Calum

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Subject :Re: Downwind problem at sea.. 2006-10-15 08:35:06

SeasidePeter

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Joined: 2006-10-04 10:14:14
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A death-roll is a side to side motion large enough to bring on a heart attack in a bloke my age.... Yes, it goosewings nicely, though I find wrestling with the pole a bit touch and go single-hanmded, so often bear away very slightly so as not to have to use it. As to what is a breeze - say a gusty 4 or more. I'm sailing in open sea, so I guess I get more gusts than lakebound Heron-ers. Perhaps I'm just not putting enough faith in the boat. I spend a lot of downwind time crouched uncomfortably in the bottom to keep the weight low. I guess I should bite the bullet and sit up and see what happens, like taking a car on a skidpan- but I don't have the luxury of a safety boat here! Out of interest, with the OK you can stop it rolling (sometimes!) by briefly sheeting in hard, or prevent such wild rolling by raking the mast further back. That's why I asked about mast rake on the Heron. Mine is pretty much vertical, and I was wondering what others have found to be best...

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Subject :Re: Downwind problem at sea.. 2006-10-17 21:27:40

admin

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Joined: 2006-02-21 22:09:04
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So she rolls but doesn't capsize - I'll agree with that - she feels a bit wobbly but I've never flipped her from there so it may be a feeling rather than a reality! I don't have a pole. but I don't have a genoa just a normal jib - but I find she will sit perfectly on a run under goose wing - I take that as a good sign as it means she isn't going to suddenly flip out on me. But perhaps I tend to sit 5^o or so off the pure run. I read something recently that said sheeting in may help by depowering the sail - but I think that was with reference to a laser - so perhaps its a single handed thing if it doesn't work on the heron. I thought this was much worse on single handers because they let you sheet the main out to 90^o from the mast. The other setting to consider is your kicking strap? Acording to wikipedia the sail shape is important for avoiding death rolls! Oh And what are you doing with the centre board? And what about forward - aft trim? The most bizzarre thing I regularly come across is people saying theat hoisting a kite will help stability - I didn't believe it till I started sailing an RS-400 but it really does make a difference! Its madness, crazy and stupid - but it works! In the RS its probably more tempting to go on a very broad reach - even if that means sailing more distance through the water its that tad faster that you compensate - and avoid the risk of a capsize (well some of the risk). If I was cruising a heron I'd be thinking the same way especially if the sea was a touch heavy.

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Subject :Re: Downwind problem at sea.. 2006-10-28 20:58:54

Titmouse

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Joined: 2006-07-25 18:08:48
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Hi I sail 206 (Titmouse) both at sea and Reservoir. Never experienced the delight of death roll inland but have at sea (Plymouth and Poole) both in very gusty force 4 to strong 5. Very scary and although did not actually flip only managed to regain control by letting everything go and hanging over the windward side before lying back in the bottom of the boat. (Amazing how quickly the heron sits calm and flat when everything goes slack) As a result when cruising at sea or without a safety boat I avoid a dead run if at all possible. If you reach downwind (not sure thats technically a correct term but you know what I mean) You avoid the roll, you can hike out a bit, it feels like your going much faster and its more fun. Have flipped my sons Laser several times on a death roll but its not such a concern as you can flip these back up in a jiffy and dont have a tonne of H2O to bale out !!

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