I have just received a note from John Howard and Tony Ogborn. It seems, somehow, among the rain this year they've been having a play with Asymmetric Spinnakers on their Herons.

John is proposing to have a discussion about this at the AGM next month. I thought it would be useful to start a thread here to allow people to:

1. Comment if they know of anyone else trying anything simillar


2. Ask questions / concerns


3. Generally discuss the issue - especially if they aren't going to make it to the AGM

So fire away... remember the purpose of the discussion boards is to 'discuss' so there won't be right / wrong answers and everyone's opinion is welcome.

I have to say I'm surprised by the proposal - but very pleasantly. In fact I have on several occasions thought that a heron with an Asymmetric would be quite a good proposition... but thought that getting the rule changes approved would be impossible.

I sail a Heron and an RS-400. The RS has a very big Asymmetric and while it does present some challenges its almost certainly easier to fly than a symmetric. I can't ever see myself single handing a symmetric on a heron (although I know some people do). But the way an asymmetric is rigged the pole etc is all fully automatic... in reasonably light winds I can see this being useable single handed. I can also see it giving the crew more to do and so make getting a crew easier.

I think its fair to say if this is accepted - I'll be an early adopter! What I really want to know is what the disadvantages are...

I have now read the notes and am a little concerned about some of the reasons. I have sailed many of the dinghy and sports boat classes over the years with considerable experience of both conventional spinnakers (470, 505, Hornet, Fireball etc) and Asymmetric (Int14, Boss, ISO Melges 24). I also work at the top end of the sport in the technical and event management areas.

I don't think that changing just to attract new sailors is a good reason. The change of a sail shape is unlikely to attract people when most of the time new sailors are attracted by the marketing and hype of a few builders. (I would say also that those builders are at present not in a good shape). Lets not sell our soul like so many have done for nothing.

John and Tony have made a good job of fitting the system and a properly designed sail will obviously work well. The course sailed by A/S boats are not those of the traditional fleets and this may cause problems. Do remember that all the A/s designs have substantially different hull characteristics to the Heron and are basically skiff derivatives designed to sail certain downwind angles. This might not be east in a Heron especially on small waters and although the goosewing would appear to work (it does not in the majority of A/s boats) I suspect a well sailed conventional spinnaker would be much better. To have enough area to goosewing effectively downwind could very well leave you overpowered as soon as a reach is required and possible you would never be able to tight reach in any breeze.

I accept that many views are subjective, but personally while a blast in a high powered A/s skiff is great fun I find the A/s spinnaker pretty boring and uninteresting to use and play. Frankly it is just to simple. I would much rather use a conventional spinnaker with all the skills needed to get the best out of the sail.

At this stage I do not have a strong opinion either way as to a vote but would perhaps urge caution. I would like to run a two boat session with the new A/s system tested against a well set up conventional spinnaker.

Cheers
David

David,

FYI the discussions today basically seemed to agree with your conclusion that a symmetric would produce faster boat speed. But the point being noted was that MOST herons don't fly a symmetric - even at the nationals. So if this would make flying a spinny easier then it might not be that bad a thing.

Most heron courses at opens at least are not triangular so it wouldn't be a major problem if there was an issue with down win speed if you might make it up the reach?

Anyway - the short conclusion (I think) was - they are going to get some proper sail shapes drawn up. And I think permit its use for a season with the intention of assessing utility. But before everyone rushes out to fit a new pole etc there may need to be changes to the setup John and Tony created and so people should await info from sail makers etc.

I think the cruicial point is it would be an OPTION - Topping lifts are an option but fairly few use them!! If its good I'm sure it will be popular - if it isn't that great then a few people may have pretty sails for their boats!

Calum

For the last few weeks i have been experimenting with an asymmetric spinny on my heron and am so convinced that it is the way to go for me, i have removed all other spinny fittings ! I sail single handed at all times but do not take part in races.The tempy.closure of my sailing venue has delayed developement but i am convinced that i have many hours of fun ahead. a


1497 Maid Marion

I fully support experimenting with an asymmetric spinnaker and am really pleased that Marion is finding it beneficial.

However, following Calum's comment that people don't fly spinnakers even at the Nationals came a surprise to say the least.I realize that legs have to be long enough to set a spinnaker but that will apply regardless of the shape of the sail and an asymmetric will take just as long to set as a symmetric. It this is not the case then it can only be the system that is wrong. I have /and can set Fireball and 470 spinnakers in a few seconds with the right system and stating the obvious they are much larger than a Heron spinnaker.

Whilst I have no objection to people using an asymmetric we must make sure that the respective sails are the same and not outlaw one. We must also be careful that we do not appear as mutton dressed as lamb because the boat was never designed for an asymmetric and we may yet find that the hull shape is not suitable at all times. What ever we do, please do not ban the symmetrical spinnaker - and maybe we should do some more work on that.

Best wishes
David